Forward

Christopher Dallman

Interview by L. Valena
August 15, 2023

Can you start by describing the prompt that you responded to?

It was a triptych of color photographs of foliage. It appears to be the same foliage, repeated over time. You see the effects of time and season on the leaves.

What were your first thoughts and feelings about that?

I liked it right away. I feel an insane connection with nature in terms of creativity. This is the second time I've done this for Bait/Switch, and what was interesting for me this time was all of the feelings I had. It wasn't a lack of response to the piece, but I've never had so many false starts. 'False starts' is kind of a negative term for a creative journey, but it took me more time than ever to find my angle in terms of what this was bringing out for me in my own art. I started off taking it very literally. I used the words of the title in lyrics, and it was interesting to find the place where it finally found its voice.

And where was that?

The title of the piece I responded to was 'I Heard You Whistle Through the Trees'. It made me think about the relationship between sound and nature, and the transformative qualities of sound in general. What is a whistle? It's a call of some sort. What is that whistle calling to me? It brought me to the very space where I create. This is a song that plays homage to my own creative process. If I hear the whistle through the trees, it's probably telling me to make something.

I've been working a lot more with sounds I recorded myself and manipulated. I still use plenty of digital instruments, but there is a lot of that homegrown digital sound as well. It feels like a very organic approach, which also speaks to the prompt.

What a beautiful way of thinking about the creative process. It's like an invitation, isn't it?

Absolutely. This song is about a very fierce commitment to the song, which also means a fierce commitment to moving forward in life. I work best at night, and when something comes out, I'm not so great at walking away from it. I will stay up for sometimes ridiculous amounts of time, and hyperfocus until I get whatever it is out. This song is about a journey into the unknown, into the darkness. Forging a path where there isn't one.

Once I read an interview with Tori Amos where she talked about how she doesn't write the songs, she channels them and they come through her. I am a realist, and when I read that I was like, "Babe, you wrote them." But I will say, I understand more now what I think she meant. It's not that I feel like I'm channeling anything divine, I don't believe in god. But I believe that creativity is something that you just let. It's about removing the roadblocks, whatever they are. It just happens. That's really scary, because it's the unknown, but it's channeling everything that makes me feel alive. It's activating enough parts of my brain, with the sound of the music, the math of where the notes are going, the words and the vibe, that I'm fully activated as a human and I'm just letting things happen. It's always scary and dark, because you're looking for light. But it's not a bad scary. It's clearly what I'm here to do in terms of my own satisfaction.

Anytime I've tried to make something, I'm always disappointed because it never sounds the way I intended it to, and at best it's a shaky approximation. I've learned that you follow the tabs in your brain, and follow every little idea, and try not to judge it. Try to put a little light on it. That's creation in its purest form, and in that sense it doesn't matter whether it's good or bad. A huge part of being a creative person is embracing the "I don't give a fuck" attitude. I don't give a fuck about the consequences of not following a traditional path. I don't fuck about people's perception of my truth.

That's the hardest part for me. It sounds like it's not as hard for you, which is a blessing, but it's hard for me.

It's not hard right now, but I was historically. When I was an acoustic musician, I wrote just a handful of songs a year and I was like squeezing the juice out. It's because I was aiming for something specific and wasn't being authentic to myself. There was no natural flow. When I unlocked whatever I'm doing now, and it started coming out, my first impulse was to get it all going while the getting's good, because it could go away. What has been so remarkable is that it hasn't, it's been like three years. It just keeps going.

Bait/Switch was an important step for me both times that I've done it because it pushed me into brand new areas. The last one was life-changing for me, in terms of the kinds of songs I write now. It remains to be seen what the effect of this one will be. It's a wonderful exercise, which isn't quite fancy enough of a word. If you really commit to it, and walk into it fearlessly, you have the ability to create something that you've never done before. Anytime you exceed your own expectations or specificity is beautiful. There's an opportunity for creating something that you didn't know you could, because it's coming from a different place. Exorcizing some demon or telling a story because I need to isn't the diving board for this, and that is amazingly refreshing.

Where did these sounds come from?

I don't even know! I'm self taught in pretty much everything I do. So I cut corners in ways that are brilliant, and miss huge things that many people know. When I listen to this song, I don't remember making these choices. I'm not saying that I have amnesia, but I don't know how I actually put these sounds together. I was following something in me. I was diagnosed with ADHD three years ago. After a lifetime of being extremely hard on myself for everything ADHD is, I decided to be really kind to myself. When I forget what I'm talking about and my brain switches course, I just do my best to honor it. There are many life moments where that is not possible, but in creating it is definitely possible. I'm not one of those 'ADHD is my superpower' people, but I recognize that my creative pursuit is one area of life where it doesn't inhibit me in the way it does for every other aspect of my life.

One thing I should mention is that I sampled for the first time in this song. My favorite pop star of the moment is Charli XCX. It was very inspiring to me when I discovered her music because she has a wildly experimental mindset that really challenges traditional pop a lot. I sampled a couple of moments of hers on this song. It was a good dabble in sampling. It felt like since I was creating an homage to my creating, that I should pay homage to the person who is inspiring me so much right now. So I took a bit from her most recent album, from a song called 'Good Ones', and also from a b side called 'What You Think About Me'.

That's so cool! Sampling seems totally different from anything else in music.

It is totally different. I read an interview with Prince not too long ago in which he was speaking poorly about sampling, and saying that it's not music. I like to think that he would have changed his mind if he were still around, because I think it's fascinating -- it's like the collage of music.

That's how I think of it too.

I'm at a point in my life where I'm not interested in traditional instruments. It's kind of like realizing you're queer in a straight world. I need queer sounds. I need sounds that are doing different things. Whenever people decry the state of music, I always tell them they have to look outside the mainstream. There aren't many moments of history where mainstream music hasn't sucked. This is a time where everyone is doing everything, everywhere.

Now that you've done this twice, do you have any new advice for another artist participating in this project?

If you do this twice, don't expect the same storm both times. My advice is to just let it out. So much of my creative life has been being scared to put something down or scared to make a sound because I'm scared it's going to be bad. You don't get anything good that way. So just let it happen, be fearless. Don't procrastinate, because you have no idea how hard it might be. Be willing to change your mind in terms of what you create and in terms of what you learn about yourself.

Call Number: Y111VA | Y113MU.daFo

Christopher Dallman is a Milwaukee, Wisconsin-based singer, songwriter, and producer. He used to make sad folk music. Now he makes electronic music. Life is wild.